Located in Grant County, New Mexico, Cave 4-5: Discover the Details is a cave. It lies in or next to Gila Cliff Dwellings National Monument, so park hours, fees and rules apply. The nearest town is Arenas Valley, about 49 km (30 mi) away (Cave 4-5: Discover the Details lies N of town).
From the National Park Service
Climb the ladders to peer over the wall but be careful not to touch. Look for pieces of the past. Perhaps you will see a pictograph or a 700-year-old corn cob. Several families made the dwellings their home for about one or two generations; building, crafting art, raising children, and sharing stories much as we do today. Imagine the details of their lives and leave the clues for others to discover and enjoy as well.
Where Did They Go? The reasons the Mogollon people left the dwellings around 1300 remains unknown. However, they continued a tradition of journeying that was a part of their culture. Evidence of the Mogollon culture disappears from the archeological record in the 1400s, but the Mogollon people did not disappear. Their descendants live on in today’s Pueblo Cultures of Arizona and New Mexico.
Text: National Park Service (public domain) — nps.gov.
Sunrise & sunset directions
At Cave 4-5: Discover the Details the sunrise point swings a long way through the year: about 61° (ENE) at the June solstice and 118° (ESE) in late December. Sunset moves from 299° (WNW) in June to 242° (WSW) in December, and the midday sun climbs to 80° in summer but only 33° in winter.
| Date | Sunrise | Azimuth | Sunset | Azimuth | Noon sun | Daylight |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| March equinox (Mar 20) | 7:18 AM | 90° E | 7:25 PM | 271° W | 57° | 12h 07m |
| June solstice (Jun 21) | 6:05 AM | 61° ENE | 8:26 PM | 299° WNW | 80° | 14h 21m |
| September equinox (Sep 22) | 7:02 AM | 89° E | 7:11 PM | 271° W | 57° | 12h 09m |
| December solstice (Dec 21) | 7:13 AM | 118° ESE | 5:10 PM | 242° WSW | 33° | 9h 57m |
Azimuth is measured clockwise from true north (90° = east, 270° = west). Computed for 2026; values change by less than a degree from year to year.
Golden hour & blue hour by month
Caves are lit artificially — show caves have fixed lighting, so a fast lens and high ISO beat flash, which flattens formations.
| Month (15th) | Blue hour starts | Sunrise | Golden hour ends | Golden hour starts | Sunset | Blue hour ends | Daylight |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| January | 6:50 AM | 7:17 AM | 7:54 AM | 4:52 PM | 5:29 PM | 5:56 PM | 10h 12m |
| February | 6:32 AM | 6:58 AM | 7:32 AM | 5:24 PM | 5:59 PM | 6:24 PM | 11h 01m |
| March | 7:00 AM | 7:24 AM | 7:57 AM | 6:49 PM | 7:21 PM | 7:46 PM | 11h 57m |
| April | 6:18 AM | 6:44 AM | 7:17 AM | 7:11 PM | 7:44 PM | 8:09 PM | 13h 00m |
| May | 5:47 AM | 6:14 AM | 6:49 AM | 7:31 PM | 8:06 PM | 8:34 PM | 13h 52m |
| June | 5:35 AM | 6:04 AM | 6:41 AM | 7:48 PM | 8:25 PM | 8:53 PM | 14h 20m |
| July | 5:47 AM | 6:15 AM | 6:51 AM | 7:48 PM | 8:24 PM | 8:52 PM | 14h 09m |
| August | 6:11 AM | 6:37 AM | 7:11 AM | 7:26 PM | 8:00 PM | 8:26 PM | 13h 24m |
| September | 6:33 AM | 6:57 AM | 7:30 AM | 6:48 PM | 7:21 PM | 7:46 PM | 12h 24m |
| October | 6:53 AM | 7:18 AM | 7:52 AM | 6:07 PM | 6:41 PM | 7:06 PM | 11h 23m |
| November | 6:19 AM | 6:45 AM | 7:21 AM | 4:36 PM | 5:12 PM | 5:38 PM | 10h 27m |
| December | 6:43 AM | 7:10 AM | 7:48 AM | 4:30 PM | 5:08 PM | 5:36 PM | 9h 58m |
Local time (America/Denver), including daylight saving time. Golden hour runs from about −4° to +6° solar altitude, so the morning golden hour begins during blue hour, before sunrise.
Milky Way & night sky
From Cave 4-5: Discover the Details, the Milky Way core is visible in a dark sky from February through October. June gives the longest window (about 6.2 hours on a moonless night), and the core peaks around 28° above the southern horizon. Our light-pollution model puts the sky at about Bortle 1 (excellent dark-sky site), which is excellent for astrophotography.
| Month | Core visible (15th) | Hours | Max altitude | Direction |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| January | Below 10° in darkness | — | 1° | — |
| February | 4:52 AM – 5:32 AM | 0.7 | 17° | SE → SE |
| March | 3:54 AM – 5:54 AM | 2.0 | 24° | SE → SSE |
| April | 1:51 AM – 5:11 AM | 3.3 | 28° | SE → S |
| May | 11:52 PM – 4:32 AM | 4.7 | 28° | SE → SSW |
| June | 10:07 PM – 4:17 AM | 6.2 | 28° | SE → SW |
| July | 10:03 PM – 2:53 AM | 4.8 | 28° | SSE → SW |
| August | 9:30 PM – 12:50 AM | 3.3 | 28° | S → SW |
| September | 8:44 PM – 10:44 PM | 2.0 | 25° | SSW → SW |
| October | 8:03 PM – 8:53 PM | 0.8 | 17° | SW → SW |
| November | Below 10° in darkness | — | 3° | — |
| December | Below 10° in darkness | — | -18° | — |
Window when the galactic core is at least 10° high during astronomical darkness on the 15th of each month. Pick nights within a few days of the new moon. Plan exact nights with the Milky Way planner.
Estimated sky darkness: 1 Bortle 1 — Excellent dark-sky site. The Milky Way casts faint shadows; zodiacal light and airglow are obvious. Modeled zenith brightness ≈ 21.92 mag/arcsec².
Weather & best season
Long-term NASA satellite data for this area show October as the clearest month (about 29% average cloud cover) and July as the cloudiest (63%). July is the warmest month and December the coldest, which matters for gear, snow access and how long batteries last at night.
Average cloud cover (%)
| Jan | Feb | Mar | Apr | May | Jun | Jul | Aug | Sep | Oct | Nov | Dec | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| High °F | 65 | 69 | 76 | 82 | 94 | 98 | 100 | 95 | 92 | 84 | 74 | 67 |
| Low °F | -10 | -4 | 11 | 18 | 23 | 37 | 47 | 44 | 32 | 18 | 12 | -1 |
| Precip. (in) | 1.1 | 1.0 | 0.7 | 0.5 | 0.4 | 0.5 | 3.2 | 3.1 | 2.2 | 1.0 | 1.0 | 1.1 |
Monthly climatology for the surrounding 1° grid cell from NASA POWER (MERRA-2). Mountain sites can be colder and cloudier than the cell average.
Photography tips for this cave
- Many show caves restrict tripods on tours; ask in advance or bring a small beanbag.
- Use manual focus with focus peaking in low light.
- Never touch formations — skin oils stop their growth.
- Follow White-nose Syndrome decontamination rules where posted to protect bats.
- Scout in daylight if you plan to shoot at night or before sunrise.
Season: Cave interiors stay at a constant temperature year-round; summer tours fill up, so book ahead.
Suggested gear: Fast lens (f/1.8–f/2.8), High-ISO camera, Small beanbag. Work out exposures with the depth of field, ND filter and NPF rule calculators.
Permits, drones & access
National Park Service rules. Under federal law (54 U.S.C. 100905), still photography in National Park Service areas needs a permit only when it (1) takes place where members of the public are not allowed, (2) uses models, sets or props that are not part of the location's natural or cultural resources or administrative facilities, or (3) would cause the park to incur additional administrative costs to monitor the activity. Ordinary visitor and most landscape photography needs no permit. Commercial filming rules are separate and have changed in recent years — confirm current requirements with the park before a paid shoot.
Drones: Launching, landing or operating unmanned aircraft (drones) is prohibited in National Park Service units under a 2014 Superintendent's closure (36 CFR 1.5), except where a park has issued specific written approval. Flying from outside the boundary over park land can also violate park rules and disturb wildlife.
Nearby photo spots
Other locations within 25 km of Cave 4-5: Discover the Details, closest first.
Cave
Cave
Cave
Wilderness Area
Hot SpringHot Spring
Scenic ViewpointCampgrounds nearby (Recreation.gov)
- Upper Scorpion Campground754 m
- Lower Scorpion Campground1.0 km (0.6 mi)
- Forks Campground7.5 km (4.7 mi)
- Black Canyon Campground - Lower22 km (14 mi)
- Black Canyon Campground - Upper23 km (14 mi)
FAQ
When is the best time to photograph Cave 4-5: Discover the Details?
What time is golden hour at Cave 4-5: Discover the Details?
Where does the sun rise and set at Cave 4-5: Discover the Details?
Can you see the Milky Way from Cave 4-5: Discover the Details?
Do you need a permit to photograph at Cave 4-5: Discover the Details?
How far is Cave 4-5: Discover the Details from Arenas Valley?
Sources
Location data: National Park Service. Sun, moon and Milky Way times are computed by LWPhoto Atlas for 2026. Climate: NASA POWER. Sky darkness is a population-based estimate (Walker's law), not a measurement. See data sources & licenses.